[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Heart Rate Variability podcast. Each week we talk about heart rate variability and how it can be used to improve your overall health and wellness. Please consider the information in this podcast for your informational use and not medical advice. Please see your medical provider to apply any of the strategies outlined in this episode. Heart Rate Variability Podcast is a production of Optimal LLC and optimal HRV. Check us
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Welcome, friends, to the Heart Rate variability podcast. I am back here with good friend of the show, Doctor Ina Hazan. Ina, how are you doing, my friend?
[00:00:42] Speaker B: I am pretty well. I am in Denver for the AAPB conference, so very excited to get that, you know, the conference started and thrilled to be talking to you again.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: I know you're like 30 minutes away, but I know you've got like a packed day tomorrow, so it's, I get to see you very soon, but it's, it's hard being this close and not sharing meals with you and hanging out. But I know we'll get plenty of that at the end.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: We will definitely get to do a lot of that. Yes.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: And if you're coming to AAPB, definitely stop by our booth. We would love to see you. So I wanted to record an episode. One I just always love talking biofeedback with Ina, but we really want to. We've gotten some questions, especially as we've launched the optimal zone function to the app. And for those that may not be using our app, hang in there with us, because if you're doing any sort of HRV bio feedback, I think we're going to probably touch on a lot of questions you might have, too. So we'll try to make this applicable to everybody. And if you're not doing any HRV bio feedback, you should be. So you should hang on here for some of the benefits. But I thought some of the questions that we've got and whether we were talking about the optical HRV app optimal zone and that functionality, we see low frequency. There's just some of these questions rolling in that I thought would be good. I know you and I have talked for hours throughout the year, so I get some of the answers to it. But I thought it would be really good just to kind of talk about the real basics of practicing HRV biofeedback on your own, not with an app sort of system like optimal HRV. And what are some ways that we can maximize that practice? So, you know, let's start out with maybe the simplest question I've ever asked you. On this podcast.
Just walk us through the basics. If you were to say, okay, here is how I would like you to, to sit to what your posture should be. Where should you position the phone? So where am I looking? Just give me the basics that before I hit start and get ready to go. What are some things that you can help to really get us right for a good biofeedback session?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's a simple question, but one we actually don't talk, talk about enough.
And it's a great question. The very short answer to that question is comfortable.
I will expand on that.
But I will emphasize that however you're sitting, do make sure you're comfortable in it. Because if you're sitting someplace where your shoulder is hurting, your back's not comfortable, that's not going to be a very helpful biofeedback session. But beyond that, it's a good idea to make sure that you are sitting in a, you know, in a relaxed, sort of uncrossed way so you know, you're not slouching. Even if that feels comfortable, you know, find, you know, find yourself a comfortable, unslouchy position.
You do want to make sure that your diaphragm is free to move because, you know, when you are breathing, you know, at resonance frequency, those breaths are going to be a bit deeper than your normal, you know, regular breaths. For that, we do need to allow the diaphragm to move. We need to be able for the ribs to expand with each inhalation so that the diaphragm moves down, so that we get that air all the way down to the bottom of our lungs.
Uncrossed legs, uncrossed arms. Non slouchy but comfortable. I do recommend either sitting or reclining. Um, you can be lying down. I would recommend not, not completely flat, but just like, you know, a little. With a little bit, a little bit of something under your head. So how much you recline is really, is really up to you. But, you know, if you feel like it's a little bit more difficult to get into that breathing or it's difficult to get a comfortable breath, then a reclining position may be easier. Or like lying down with a pill under your head may be easier than sitting, because in that position, the diaphragm is going to move a little bit more easily. I don't recommend doing this standing up, at least not when you are first starting out. You know, when you have a lot of practice, people can do resonance frequency breathing, you know, standing, maybe like, you know, standing next to a wall or with a little bit of support if standing is, for whatever reason, more desirable. But for most people, when they're starting out, sitting down or. Or reclining up in a kind of open body posture.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Interesting. So let's. Let's ask. Let me ask you another. So I'll just throw these softballs right over the plate for you. But they're, they're real questions that I think come up here, and I. For me as well. So as we breathe during a biofeedback practice, you know, I want to talk a little bit about the diaphragm because, I guess, where's my lungs in? Because I can inhale and my stomach can go out. I can kind of breathe down to my way low in my abdomen. So, like, walk us through. If you were to coach me on taking the ideal breath for residence frequency, pretend like I have no idea what I'm doing, how would you help me get in the right breathing method? What should I be thinking about as I engage in my practice?
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Okay, well, I'll start out with telling you what you should not be thinking about, and you should not be thinking about taking a deep breath. I know we've talked quite a bit about that. I'm not going to dive too much into it, but very, very briefly. Oftentimes, when we think about resonance frequency breathing, which is quite a bit slower than your typical breathing, many people feel like, oh, that better be a deep breath because it's going to be so slow. But in reality, even though, yes, this breathing is slower, it still does not need to be very deep in an attempt to take a very deep breath is actually likely to be counterproductive and end up in an over breathing breath where you're breathing out too much carbon dioxide and not actually underutilizing the oxygen that you have. So having that oxygen get stuck in your bloodstream and not get to where it needs to go.
For that reason, I don't recommend thinking about this as deep breaths, but rather low and slow. So there's typically not a huge need to get too much into the anatomy of this, although I can talk about it a little bit. But the idea is just to shift the breath from the chest to the belly.
Here we're going to be using, um, the intercostal, the external intercostal muscles, which are the primary muscles for breathing. So this is why we're taught, you know, this is often called the belly breath. You're not actually getting any air into your abdomen or into your stomach. You really shouldn't be. That's a problem. If that's what's happening. You're just using the muscles of the belly. And when you're using those muscles, that is what allows the ribs to expand and the diaphragm to move down. So the diaphragm kind of sits, you know, right, right under your ribs. So if you feel what your ribs end like, you know, the diaphragm is kind of, you know, there, and, you know, that muscle needs a little bit of room to move down on your inhalation. So this is why we recommend moving the breath from the chest to the belly. So that's the low part of low and slow breathing, and that will naturally deepen your breath.
And then you're going to slow down your breathing to match the slight increase in the depth of the breath. In order for the breast to be healthy, we need to match between the depth and the rate of the breath. So because we're slowing down, we do need a slightly deeper breath. But there is no need to take a big, deep breath because that is likely to be too much. So the idea is just to allow yourself to take a sort of normal size for a belly. Breath.
Breath in. Thinking about this as if you're smelling a flower. Always through the nose. Breathe in through the nose as if you're smelling a flower.
So that's naturally going to be just a little bit deeper than typical, and it's going to allow you to slow down to your resonance frequency. And then for the exhalation, you can breathe out through the nose. Or if it's harder to breathe out that slowly, you can breathe out through purse lips as if you're blowing out a candle.
Right. And this kind of breath will allow the diaphragm to go back up. Your ribs will, you know, get back to where they are typically, and, you know, the air will, the necessary amount of air will come out of your, of your lungs. So you will want the exhalation to be a bit longer than the inhalation, and that's about it.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: So I'm tall. So this, this might be a tall man question. I don't know. And I'm weirdly shaped, so take those two things into account. But my diaphragm, like, I feel like I can breathe into my lower belly and almost like my ribs. Lower ribs don't move at all, do I? Is my goal to get lower ribs extended at all? Or is it if I just get belly out, I'm good, because my belly is like, because I'm six, seven, you know, everything in me is longer than most people so, like, I feel like I can breathe way down deep in there and my ribs don't do anything. Am I trying to get those lower ribs to extend out at all or help me with this?
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Well, so I'm going to tell you, don't try here. It's likely to be, effort is likely to be counterproductive. I will also say for the exact anatomy of this, I'm going to direct you to Doctor Dave.
He will give you an excellent, an excellent answer. But my answer is going to be really, you know, don't try. Effort really will be counterproductive. You do want to be feeling the breath in the belly muscles. I suspect that your ribs are coming out and doing what they need to. You're just not really feeling it. You know, when I breathe, I don't really feel my ribs coming out either. But, you know, I know that that is what's happening. So don't try. Give your body a chance to do what it needs to do, you know, for you and for other, you know, tall people. And another thing to keep in mind is you have pretty large lung capacity, you know? You know, as you said, everything in your body's bigger, so your lungs are bigger. You know, you'll have larger capacity. So it might actually be easier for you to over breathe because you can take a much larger breath in, but your oxygen needs are not all that much greater than regular height people. So just be cautious around that. So you really don't need big, deep breaths because you can take a very large breath because your lungs can accommodate that. But then for your resonance frequency, even though your resonance frequency is lower, you know, you are at 4.54.54, .5 right. So you're definitely on the lower side, so you do have a little more time to exhale.
But still, you know, if you've taken in too much on the inhalation, you know, even at longer exhalation, you are in danger of over breathing. So don't be concerned with taking a deep breath. Just let the breath kind of go down to the belly, taking a normal size breath in and just let the belly do, you know, do its thing without effort. You're not really trying for anything here.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Awesome. So let's knock out some, a couple more easy questions. But once we begin, a lot does my, and I know we may have touched this on past podcasts, but it's been a while. We got a lot of people using the optimal zone. So let me again just keep throwing some softballs over the plate here. Does my residence frequency ever change do I need to do the assessment over?
[00:13:28] Speaker B: You should probably not.
And, you know, I'll tell you why I'm saying probably.
So far, most of the evidence that we have says that, you know, resonance frequency really doesn't change. The only thing that resonance frequency depends on is your, you know, your height, because it depends on the length of your blood vessels.
So once you hit your final height, your residence frequency should stay the same. Now, if we're talking about people who are still growing, you know, I would. I would redo residence frequency assessment once a year. You know, depend on the rate of growth, maybe every twice, maybe even twice a year. But once you've hit your final height, it should remain stable because your height typically remains pretty stable.
There was one study that showed that residence frequency does change. There were some issues with that study, and there's just one. So I'm not ready to say that your resonance frequency changes. I think at this point, most of the evidence points to the fact that we're likely.
Once you determine your residence frequency, as long as it's done accurately, you're good to go. But I am certainly leaving the possibility that we will learn more about this. And at some point, the answer might change. But for now, I see no reason to redo it. As long as you feel like your assessment was accurate, that you felt comfortable. Comfortable, you know, you know, you were able to slow, slow down your breathing, follow the pace comfortably, etcetera.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: That's. I'm really trying to convince people that the 14 minutes they take the assessment may be the most important 14 minutes of their life. A little overdramatic. But I do think that that is a point that in our onboarding process, I know you have people practice slow and slow breathing before doing the assessment itself. So there. There could be, and I think we're maybe hitting this with a couple folks. You might, if you did it, like, just because you couldn't delay gratification and you wanted to get your residence frequency rate right when you got the app, and then you do it six months later after you've been doing this, just because the practice, you may get a more accurate rate. So it might not. And correct me if I'm wrong, it may not hurt, especially if you jumped right in right away to give it another shot, look at it later on.
Might just see some. Just. You've adapted to getting a better score potentially.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: That's possible if you weren't entirely comfortable breathing slowly, if it's not clear whether you were able to follow the pacer appropriately or if you weren't able to sit still if there was some artifact. The artifact is sort of the most problematic part. Part here, especially if you're using an app with optimal or any other app where you don't have access to the raw data. Optimal does have pretty good artifacting. I'm actually quite proud of our artifacting, but if there is a lot of artifact, it's still not going to be an accurate reading. So if you were moving, if you're not sure if you were able to sit pretty still, definitely a good idea to redo. And again, if you weren't very comfortable with, um, with. With the breathing. Good idea to redo. Once you know that, you know, you're totally comfortable breathing slowly now.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, so. So I want to dig a little deeper in the weeds here, but just I. We, you. This is not going to surprise you with the folks you work with. We got some competitive folks, uh, using the app, and I'm getting a lot of questions on how do I get my more time in optimal zone. I want to get more time in optimal zone, and one of those people might be me.
And so, like, I've got, I think my posture, I think my breathing, I think I'm getting those things pretty well in sync. I know I'm doing mine later at night, which I'm finding has lower scores than during the day. But just what is impacting our ability to get in and stay in optimal zone? Because on one hand, you know, and I love your analogy of pushing the child on the swing and residence frequency, breathing helps us really push at that optimal level where the child's going up and down, is happy.
But if I do that at night, I find I get a lot more of a happy child or optimal zone green time than I do if I do it, like it in the morning, and I'm talking, like, maybe 80, 85% in the morning to some really low numbers in the evening, and just kind of wondering, how should we should think about scores different times of day?
We know, like our RMSSD, if I have a hard workout, it'll be down. But is that the same for optimal zone?
What is impacting these scores and what may account for various scores throughout the days or on different days with folks?
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good question.
We did well, for one thing, we definitely need a little more research on this, but I'll give you my best ideas on this one.
For one thing, trying and worrying about whether or not you're staying in the optimal zone is a good way to get kicked out of the optimal zone.
Because if you think about what is the optimal zone indicating, it's telling you that your heart rate signal is coming primarily from the baroreflex and your parasympathetic nervous system. But if your mind is in, oh, my God, am I doing this right? And am I too tired and this is the right time for it? And, you know, what's my optimal zone score going to be? All of that rumination is associated with very low frequency power.
So even though your breathing might be pretty close to where it needs to be, if your mind is in that ruminative state, you are going to get more very low frequency power and not as much low frequency. Right. Your heart rate signal won't be concentrated exactly where it needs to be. Some of its input will be coming from the very low frequency.
So your best bet for trying to get into the optimal zone is to give up the trying.
I think we have a theme. There is do or do not. There is no try, right? We can adopt a yoda attitude here, really just letting yourself get into. Just letting your body breathe for you, letting your breath fall into your resonance frequency rate, and just observing the breath in your mind's eye. Just feeling the inhalation exhalation. Inhalation exhale. Just letting yourself feel that and disengaging from the thoughts that come into your mind because these thoughts will come. Am I doing this right? What's my optimal zone saying, you know, et cetera.
Giving yourself permission to let. Let that go. You know, it's okay for these thoughts to come, but you don't need to focus on them. You know, bringing your attention back to the inhalation exhalation. And not the words inhalation exhalation, but the actual feeling, you know, just really feeling the breath. So a lot of it is about being in a more mindful state, but also, you know, in the evening, if your nervous system is a little bit more dysregulated, it's harder to get into that low frequency range, which is why you are seeing higher scores in the morning and lower scores in the evening. But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be doing a training in the evening. I might mix it up a little bit and do some of your training in the morning and some in the evening, but I think it's actually good to do this training in the evening to help your kind of more tired nervous system to regulate a little bit better.
I would still be looking for your optimal zone scores to be going up, but only comparing evening to evening. And morning to morning. Right. You know, if you. I would just assume that for you, you're going to be getting, for the time being, different scores in the morning and the evening. So, you know, do your best not to compare those because we'll just stress you out. But you can look for improvement in your optimal zone over time during the evening. There is also, you know, the whole circadian rhythm. You know, your heart ability does vary based on a circadian rhythm and which is why we take morning readings consistently, not evening readings, because morning readings are always different. So just keeping all of that in mind and most importantly, giving yourself permission to just breathe and other than putting yourself into a comfortable, open posture, not worrying whether you're doing it right.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So is because it's interesting, I think what I've kind of, you know, with our conversations, we are sort of whooshing into new potential areas of knowledge. Right. So really looking at low frequency in a very scientific way, you know, while we can do it at different times or after or before, you know, you pre post test different things. Not that that's the purpose of low frequency, but I think we're. Because on some of the reading that I do on low frequency, it's just like if I can get my breath at residence frequency, I should be in optimal zone. And I think even for me, that is sort of what I was assuming. As long as I don't watch tv and actually focus on the pacer, I should get there. And I'm finding that that's not the case. Obviously, if I'm not watching tv, my scores are much higher. I will give you that. But it's like I said, in the evening, I may still hit in the teens or low twenties.
And I'm tv off, focused, kind of ticked off, but not really ticked off that I'm not in it more. But it's interesting to see that it just, my nervous system isn't there in the same way.
Yeah, I find it fascinating.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And this is, I think this is why we do need a little understanding. I would expect the breathing to be kind of the primary driver for getting into that low frequency state. The fact that you're getting teens and twenties in the evening and like eighties in the morning is, I would say, a little unusual.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: Well, first time that Matt scores have been a little unusual. So.
So then at the end of the readings, I know we look at low frequency and I love that I get my all time low frequency to compare it to and we get Max min.
I wonder, like, it doesn't happen often. But I know I'm not the only one that have gotten more time than average in optimal zone and yet a low frequency score lower than my all time average and vice versa sometimes. So, you know, max min a little bit, little less of that, but I see that a little bit from time to time, too. So those scores are connected, but they may show a little bit different things as we kind of get to that end page where we see our summary. But wonder if you could parse out that just a little bit about why those numbers might be a tad different than we expect everything to trend in one direction or the other.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So what's really important to remember here is the optimal zone is calculating the percentage of time that you are spending in that low frequency range. So it's the percentage of your overall power, you know, during your training time that's concentrated in a low frequency range.
But your total power is going to vary day to day. You know, in the day when you're really tired, your total power is going to be lower.
So your absolute power for low frequency is going to be lower, too.
On a day when it's been a really great day and you will very well rested and, you know, and maybe it's still first part of the day, maybe it's not in the evening, your body's regulating very well and you're on vacation.
Your overall total, your total power is going to be much higher. Your overall heart survivability is going to be higher. So just the absolute power of low frequency is going to be higher because of that.
So you might be in that really great state, and your body is regulating very well, but you're doing your resonance frequency training while watching tv and not really paying attention to the pacer enough. So you might have, you might still have a higher absolute power of low frequency just by the virtue of there being more power in your, in your HRV, right, but having a lower percentage because you, you know, you weren't with, you know, staying with your breathing face the whole time.
And on a day, maybe when you are more tired but focusing better, your overall numbers, the absolute power is going to be lower. But you might be staying in the nineties because you, you know, for, uh, for your optimal zone because it's just the percentage of what's there. But the, what's there might be, you know, does vary day to day. Um, and max min varies as well. Right. You know, your max min is going to be higher on days when you're doing great. It's going to be lower on days that are, you know, where you're more tired or more challenged, et cetera. So just that those do not necessarily, uh, go together. And the reason why we.
We calculate the optimal zone as percentage and not absolute power is exactly because of that.
Because the absolute power will vary day to day, whereas your percentage depends less on what's going on that day and more in your breathing. Except, apparently for you, Matt.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: You can also see, let's say you're doing a 20 minutes session. The first ten minutes you're on, and then the last ten minutes, you know, you see a call from somebody you don't want to see a call from. Shoot, you keep doing it. But we can also see shifts throughout the session as well, which I would imagine would roll off those scores in some way.
Interesting way as well. So.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So being mindful does absolutely. Does absolutely help. You know, you want just, you know, stay with your breathing pace and be mindfully there as opposed to thinking about that call that you got or something else.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Because when we start ruminating, we really do see a change in the spectral display.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: And so, really, if people are competitive, not. Not me, of course, but if other people are competitive and want to, like, we're so, like, maybe programmed of majoring RHRB and want it to be higher and higher and higher, and we're kind of in a little bit of that mindset in a loving kindness sort of way, with. With the optimal zone. It sounds like a lot of the things that still could, like, improve our RMSSD scores, such as movement, sleep quality. It could still impact our optimal zone scores if it. That total power is down because of a lot of other. A hard workout or something like that, we still may see end of the day versus beginning of the day, we still might see some of that overall improvements with overall health, overall decreases with activities and other things as well.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Absolutely, yes.
And the long term progress we're really going to see in those morning, you know, morning readings. Right. This is where all that training, if you're doing that, those 20 minutes a day practices that you're doing, you will see that payoff in a change in your morning readings, which is why it's so important to be taking those and not just doing the biofeedback training, because you will see the progress.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Right. Right. Because that's still our. I'm just calling our sacred baseline.
That's really what. Why we're doing all this practice is really to improve those morning readings. And if your optimal zone is higher or lower, I mean, it's data but, like, I know I sleep better if I do it before I go to bed. Like, so I'm going to keep doing that, like, ten minute practice before bed because I sleep so well, even though my scores are significantly lower that it's okay, because that is that morning baseline that I'm still trying to work up over time.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: Exactly. And, you know, for a lot of the really competitive people, actually, a part of what gives them the competitive edge is knowing when to let go off the go, go, go, go. And try, try. Right. So the resonance frequency practice is a great opportunity to let go and, you know, let your breath breathe itself, you know, kind of following, falling into that resonance frequency pace and, you know, letting your body do its thing and kind of getting out of the way, uh, vice. And that. That gives people a competitive edge of being able to move in and out of the competitiveness. So there you go.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Well, and I find myself trying. Well, if I breathe deeper or if I exhale more aggressively or less aggressively and more peacefully, like, I. You, you know, you know the type. You've worked with us before. So I'm. I'm trying to, like, oh, like, get in that green. I want that green, basically. I mean, I would. I'm doing it every day since we. I was testing it way before it was ever released. It is that kind of, I love that. Letting your breath happen at that rate. Obviously you're manipulating it, but, but in a very, just peaceful, rhythmic way, I think is beautiful way to put it.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: You can create mindful change with your breathing, right?
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: You can allow. You can allow the breath, you know, to follow the pacer. You're doing that mindfully. You know, you're not struggling with the breath. You know, you're not putting effort into it. You're not trying to make it happen. This really is the balance between, you know, well, what mindful biofeedback is all about. You know, it's that middle way, you know. Right. The balance between goal directed action and letting go. Right. Goal directed action being, you know, here's that pacer. And this is what we, what we'd like our breath to do and letting go is you let the breath fall into that pace and get out of the way and let it be and, you know, struggling, trying, et cetera. So it's a mindful change.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Love it. Any other things we haven't covered that maybe questions I haven't asked? Any other suggestions for folks as they embark on their HRV biofeedback journey?
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Well, I would just to actually come back to something you said to emphasize the importance of investing a little time into the resonance frequency breathing determination.
It's 14 minutes, but it's really, for most of us, just once, maybe you end up doing it twice. It's a fairly small investment, and we do have research showing that you get better results when you're breathing at your residence frequency, as opposed to being like, one breath per minute off. So seems like it's a very small investment given that if you are dedicating 20 minutes a day to HRV training, you might as well be doing it in the most efficient way you possibly can.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. Okay, so I got one, Matt, question for you. So our listeners are probably sick of hearing, you know, I. So I do. I did not. I'm not tracking, so I'll put it out there. But I did just tell me if I'm wasting my time or not. I do something like Tai Chi, slow movement activity. It's a wing Chun set. I love it because I'm looking straight ahead so I can breathe at the pacer while I do the movements to my inhale and exhale. I know there's no reason to track that because movements would create artifacts for the data. So I. I know that's not going to be any kind of measurable metric I can use. Am I still getting the benefit if I'm breathing at resonance frequency, whether it might be yoga or, you know, q gong? I know some folks do that. Like, as long as I'm focusing on the breath, does resonance, bringing my residence frequency into that sort of practice? And am I. Am I doing something right, or should I just sit my butt down and breathe?
[00:35:10] Speaker B: You're definitely doing something right. I would say there should be times when you should sit your butt down and breathe. There should be sometimes, but. Yep. But I don't think you're wasting your time at all. You know, I don't. I'm not aware of any research looking at HRV, specifically with Tai Chi. That would be a great study if anybody's feeling motivated to do that. Or maybe I just. I'm not aware of one. But there are studies of yoga and looking at HRV and yoga, and there's oftentimes gentle movement and slowing down the breath. So all of that research points me to say that I think what you're doing is absolutely beneficial.
You may not be getting accurate recordings because of the movement, but I do think that you are stimulating your nervous system in a very positive way.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Well, you mean Fred Shaffer have to sit down at a table and figure out his contraction research with my movement and rest. I think, I think it's all there. We just got to put the pieces together. And then, Edith, you and I can come up with our own new martial arts set.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: So there you go.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: The hazard method. I like that. I think we go with that so well. I really appreciate this. I know after doing this for several, almost a year now, since we've been testing it out, there's just been little things that have popped up. And I know for a lot of our users now that are using this on a daily basis, we're just getting a lot of really great questions. And so I thought it'd be really worth the time again, whether using optimal or any heart rate variability feedback app. Just good to get the basics out there sometimes because I think we get so excited about the new feature that sometimes we forget to ask some of those basic questions. So I really appreciate me just throwing softballs over your plate and you hit them out of the park here. So I appreciate you, my friend. I can't wait to see you here in a few days.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: See you soon, Matt.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: And as always, you can find show notes and everything
[email protected]. Thank you for joining us today, and we will see you again next week. Thanks, everybody.
