[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Heart Rate Variability Podcast. Each week we talk about heart rate variability and how it can be used to improve your overall health and wellness. Please consider the information in this podcast for your informational use and not medical advice. Please see your medical provider to apply any of the strategies outlined in this episode. Heart Rate Variability Podcast is a production of Optimal LLC and Optimal HRV. Check us out at optimalhrv.com Please enjoy the show.
Welcome friends, to Heart Rate Variability Podcast. I'm excited to welcome back Dr. Stephen Polyakis to the show. We had a great episode with him. Steve, I think it was a few years back now.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Talking about your incredible diverse expertise, experience, we didn't dive that much into your amazing life story as well. So when I was thinking about this series for interviewing folks like yourself around your personal wellness and health, the habits you've built, the practices that have really impacted you in your life and just kind of what your day looks like and how you integrate all this knowledge and experience into your day, you were one of those people that came right to mind as somebody I needed to interview. So just in case there may be some folks, and I suggest you, you can stop here, go back, listen to that previous episode. But in case people haven't, you know, heard your introduction, can you just give folks a brief introduction?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: And your work.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Steve Poliakis, D.C. i'm in Wheaton, Illinois.
I'm a chiropractor and an acupuncturist.
Been in practice for, we're going on 25 years.
I got into health and wellness as a patient. As a kid, I had recurrent sinus infections, the worst of which put me in the hospital. When I was 15, I had a staph infection that was so bad it had perforated the sinuses and my eyes were swollen shut. I was in the beginning stage of meningitis. Kind of scary in hindsight. You know, as a 15 year old, you're ignorant to a lot of things. The IVM antibiotics stabilize me in the ent.
I had a, a very honest guy just told my mom, said all we can do with this kid is just throw antibiotics at this, look at something alternative. And you know, my mom took me to a chiropractor and making some pretty bold claims and it was a pretty simple thing actually. This, the curvature of my neck was reversed and my sinuses weren't draining properly. And you know, it was actually a pretty easy fix and I didn't get infections so much. And you know, flash forward a number of years I just like the fact that within the health and wellness industry, that was conservative, low tech, try the natural stuff first, doesn't work. Go to the next level of invasivity. And so that's, that's kind of my M.O. professionally. And I'm not, I'm not a very dogmatic chiropractor in a sense that I view spinal manipulation. Chiropractic treatment is an incredibly powerful modality, but it's, it's a modality. And in the state of Illinois, we have physician status. So in our scope of practice for the chiropractic profession, it varies state by state. So in Illinois, we can diagnose, we can order imagery, blood work, because we have physician status. You're also, you definitely have to always be thinking, is this somebody that needs a medical referral too? But not, not selling ourselves short either, you know, with that. So, so that's why, you know, some people might be a little curious, why is a chiropractor also doing acupuncture? Right.
And my journey with heart rate variability, it actually, I was thinking about this, that it started with, you know, just coming across patients that had a lot of accessory muscles of respiration that were overactive, you know, scalenes, SEMs, and you know, they're, you know, looking at me for a solution. And that kind of led to, well, let's let me bone up as a clinician and me personally bone up on proper breathing techniques because, you know, learning about the differences between stress breathing and relaxed breathing. Right. And it's kind of a side note aside, something I wish I had discovered hour of breath earlier in my life. Hindsight is 2020 and, you know, not going to quote Frank Sinatra, I did it my way.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: But, but, you know, I, I have a similar journey. We both got there eventually at least.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and so I was thinking, I'm a former smoker. Turns out I have cystic fibrosis trait, so I'm a carrier. I have five kids and one of my children has cystic fibrosis. I'm thinking, man, I dodged a bullet because I was also, I grew up in, and everybody smoked in my family. My parents, my aunts and uncles, my siblings. And so for me, that was just for part of an adult, you know, me becoming adult, I'm going to start smoking cigarettes, which in height was like horrifying, you know, and so looking back to just how, how I handled stress and just what a powerful tool the power of breath is. And, you know, it's something that's so simple that, you know, it's something I really, I'm acutely aware when I encounter people in practice and, or on the street or wherever that, you know, when they're. We're talking about, oh, they're under a lot of stress. You know, I do the first thing. Okay, tell me what your breath work looks like. Breath work?
What's that? Yeah, you know, it's like, wow, you know, and I know this is, you know, breath isn't something new. It's been around as long as.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Animals have had lungs. How.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: I don't know if we, if we include fish in there, but. Yeah, but think of all the traditions, you know, Eastern, Western and, you know, globally. You know, everybody, you know, through all cultures and traditions have, have, if, if at a minimum have stumbled upon this, you know, but at a, at a higher level, you know, it's, you know, breath is incredibly well developed.
Yeah. So I'm kind of all over the place. Over the place here. But so in practice, I, Yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: I'm curious how you like all this learning. And my, my experience with chiropractors is that unlike maybe some other professions that are related in the health care arena, they're a more insightful, reflective, holistic, you know, person.
And the training, I think, from what, what I, Very little. I know as an outsider sort of supports that as well. So I kind of, I'd love to hear how you went from a, a smoker, chiropractor, and then just, you know, again, integrating all this knowledge on healthy breathing and everything into your own life.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, it's, I think it's, I think what a lot, with a lot of us in the health and wellness space, you know, we're driven by, you know, what can I do to help somebody? And, you know, this is a, and this is also true of medicine. It's a science, but it's also an art.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: You know, and so, yes, I could, I could follow dogma. And nothing against dogma. It has its proper place at its proper time. However, me being dogmatic as a clinician, I think humility is a great remedy against that, you know, that I, you know, I'll be the first to tell you, if I'm not helping you, I'm going to put. And put you in front of a person who can, you know, and, you know, with my skill set and my training, we can, I could do a lot, but I can't do everything. And nor am I going to say that this is, I've got the, I've got the magic cure here. In my pocket, you know, if somebody's telling you that, get up and walk out the door.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Quickly. Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: And if they're selling it to you in shake form. Run.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: So.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Currently, I would say that the big tools in my toolbox that I use most frequently are obviously chiropractic manipulation, spinal manipulation, lots of manual therapy, acupuncture, dry needling, rehab.
Here's something I discovered, actually, it was during the pandemic and during COVID I was. I'm a solo practitioner. So, you know, patients would sit in the car, they'd shoot me a text when they're ready. I'd sanitize everything in between patients. And once it's clear, okay, comma, come up something, one person at a time, you know, every 45 minutes to an hour.
But the commonality, it's interesting. The commonality with almost all manual therapies and you can even include like, dry needling, and we'll even say acupuncture and for that matter, chiropractic. And the founder of osteopathy, George Taylor, still, there's a lot of commonality in chiropractic manipulation and osteopathic manipulation. And George Taylor, still in the 1800s, saying, no, no, the mechanism of action is vasodilation, you know, and that's kind of this increasing blood flow. And D.D. palmer and B.J. palmer, the chiropractor. No, it's nerve interference. It's the subluxations compressing on the nerve. The reality is it's both. But the elephant in the room, when, when I'm seeing patients, that occurred to me during the pandemic when people are coming in and. Because I saw the spike during the pandemic and I'm like, why is, why is everybody having increased myofascial pain and then their spines are just locked up more so, like, ever. Obviously, their stress is a very scary time, Very incredibly stressful. But we were all wearing our masks and, you know, your oxygenation is not going to be great when you wear a mask. You're breathing in a lot more of your CO2. And so your, your, your oxygen saturation is going to drop down. And it occurred to me that the commonality with pretty much everything I was doing is increasing oxygenation of the tissue. If you want to get down to brass tacks, like, let's say you've got a muscle spasm in your shoulder. Yeah.
You could put heat on that. You can get massage, you could do some cupping, you could do some dry needling, you could do some exercise. That's going to increase the blood flow. You could do manipulation around that area. It's going to reset some local nerve function, get some blood flow. You know what all that's doing? It's increasing oxygenation of the tissue.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: And that's the mechanism to get down to the physiological level. That increased oxygenation is disrupting prostaglandins. It's doing all kinds of really cool stuff down at the cellular level. I'm like, wow, what can I do to help people just get better oxygenated?
In coming out of the acupuncture world, out of the traditional Chinese medicine world, blood stagnation is something that's talked about a lot as the cause of a great many ills for a person. And so many Eastern medicine modalities are focused at blood stagnation, which goes hand in hand with something called Qi stagnation. Anyway, what can we do to increase oxygenation and blood flow? Well, number one would be exercise. You know, just get out there for a walk or get your blood pump and get the oxygenation flowing. And when you're doing that, you know, there's, there's breath that's happening. So that was kind of interesting. Then I stumbled upon the work of Wim Hof and I thought that was really, really intriguing in his. His breath and how when he was explaining how through breath you're able to essentially hack your autonomic nervous system. It's the only organ that we can willfully control.
You know, I could argue, you know, maybe your bladder and those things, you can willfully control those as well. But pretty much every other autonomic or, you know, organ function, we don't really have willful, deliberable control except for the breath. And by working on our breath, controlling our breath, we can kind of enter the system a little bit and start to impact that like, wow. Wow, that's amazing.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: And then so that it started getting into, you know, researching breath. And then Dr. David Hopper put out a continuing education here in Illinois for chiropractors, just learning more about hrv. And I'd been learning about HRV and I stumbled upon the work you guys are doing. I was like, wow, this is really. I really need to.
This is a really. I can see this a really powerful tool that can help impact with what I'm trying to do in the clinic. So, yeah, so, like me personally, this has been really a very powerful tool.
So in the morning, I have my HRV reader.
I get that on as quickly as I can. Try to. I try to be consistent with Using it. But you know, my mom had a plaque hang on the wall in our house. Life is something that happens while you're planning something else.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Right.
And so, you know, and I'll tell this to patients because they get stressed out. Oh, I missed some readings or I'm not just, just reboot, regroup and you know, do what you can and don't get too stressed out about that. But I, I, the, the feature of learning the resonance frequency for breathing, for me, that's been a, that's been a real game changer because I tried, you know, box breathing and different, different stuff and just a validation with the biofeedback. Like that's, that's really what the, that's kind of the rhythm that my body jives with really just come in handy. And I've been using it long enough that I have a pretty good sense of how to count that out.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: So I'm 5.5. That's my resonance frequency. So I've, I've, with practice I've been able to just get a sense of, you know, when I'm, when I would have my reader handy and I'm sitting in traffic or, you know, I'm getting stressed, like, you know, start breathing, you know. So, yeah, the journey, the journey thus far has been, has been pretty, pretty wild and it's exciting. This is a really exciting time to be in the field for health and wellness, you know. Yeah. And I think that the work of what you guys are doing with optimal HRV is pretty incredible.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Well, thank you.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: It's an honor to work with people like yourself and be part of your journey as well. So I'm curious because you mentioned like Wim Hof, which I really think is just fascinating kind of that forced hyperventilation versus something as calming as resonance frequency breathing. And we have all these different approaches going back to the yogis and probably before them, their teachers as well, about how to manipulate the breath to improve health and wellness. So I'm just curious, as you evolved as a person and a professional, how has your breathing practices sort of evolved to include residents Frequency breathing? Were you a meditator? Did you practice medicine? Mindfulness? Just kind of like, what, what, how did that inform sort of your own health and wellness and practices?
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So starting in my twenties, I discovered, I discovered breathwork through meditation and prayer.
And so in just, you know, this, the centering quality of a breath. And that's as, that's as deep as I understood it as. Okay, when I breathe in, you know, it's helping me concentrate. Okay. I'm feeling more relaxed, you know. Okay. I'm more, I'm more present with, with my mind for where I want, where I want to go during that, that quiet time. Right.
And so I've always, I've always used that the.
I guess I'm losing my train of thought here. So it's over time.
It really hasn't been until around the pandemic that I started to become aware more of that I stumbled upon a program. It's out of Harvard.
It's called Optimal Work.
And it's like Dr. David Majors is his name Majeris, Maryland. And this is sort of Harvard's.
They're attached to Harvard's medical school and in their program, which is sort of a work life balance program, it's a masterclass. And they really drove home using breath, especially at the beginning of when you're trying to do something called the golden hour, which is a state of neurologic flow where you're kind of coordinating your hind brain and your front brain. And before you do do that, they do about three minutes of just a general breath work. And when, when I encountered that, I'm like, oh, this is, this is pretty interesting. And they talk a little bit about, about the power of breath and what that's doing. But it really wasn't until discovering optimal HRV that I started to go, try starting to go a little deeper on my, on my breath work. And so incorporating that, you know, trying to build time in, in the evening where, you know, I'm doing, I'm just doing breath work for at a minimum of 3 minutes, 5 minutes of setting a timer. Okay, I'm going to do this now regularly for 10 minutes a day or gradually working up to it. And again, you know, sometimes life gets in the way and the habit starts to break down. And so it's just, just regrouping. It's interesting.
I've noticed that days that I, I've missed my breath work, my anxiety will start to trick up a little bit. And you know, even not like, you know, major stuff, but I've noticed my, my responsiveness to local or to environmental stressors or things happening with work, whatever that I'm, I'm feeling. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm forgetting I haven't done breath work in a couple days, you know, and, and I notice it's like if I forget or skip or travel or whatever, you know, two or three days is like, man, I'm feeling, I'm feeling it.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I even felt like, like I have a very severe reaction to short term reaction but to vaccination. So when I get vaccinated, I just don't have it in me to do anything except moan on the couch like that. That's what I, that's my, that's going to be my next 24 hours. I just got my shingles. So like, I don't know if I've ever felt worse in my life, which is also probably feels a lot better than shingles would feel. So I'm okay with that short term cost. But like, you know, where, where I don't feel like doing my movement and breath practice and man, you know, by the time the, the symptoms of the fact, you know I'm feeling better, I just cannot wait to do my practice. Like my, my, my energy, my muscles are like just all kind of tight and it just blocks everything. So I am now like 24 hours without practice and I'm like, I can feel that same thing as well.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And now that we all have our smartphones and our devices, I noticed that my attention span is. You know, I've heard somebody say that our attention span is now shorter than a goldfish. I need to verify that, but I think.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not sure if that was like a double blind study of gold.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: Yeah, probably not. That could be a little hyperbole. But the point is. Yeah, but the point is well taken.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: I also noticed that when I do my breath work, my attention and my attentiveness is just so much better, you know, especially if I can get it done in the morning too. That, that, that helps. Or in the flip side of is when I'm not, it's like, man, my, my attention span is, you know, I've. I kid around and say I now have adult onset adhd, but I'm kind of kidding. But not, you know, it's just like, wow.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Well, we were talking about just the stress in the world as the time recording this and like, yeah, I'm working on a grant and I, I like, I've also got like CNBC odd and I'm checking and I'm like, yeah, wait a minute. Like this is what I teach people not to do. But I think when my stress level gets so high it's like I'm not getting anything done, you know, and I'm just feeding that anxiety, you know, to, to destroy my quality that I'm giving to the task.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: I think I'm going to create T shirts that say stop, drop and breathe.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. I sign me up for one.
Maybe we can put our logo on the back.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: That's it. Yeah, there you go. For sure.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: I'm also curious because one of the things that this kind of crosses personal professional for me is, you know, in psychology we paid a lot of attention to strategic tapping, like cross lateral. And if you're not watching video, I'm crossing my arms here and tapping my shoulders, you know, to help support, you know, kind of like the EMDR thing where we're supporting emotional regulation during, you know, traumatic recall, you know, as far as I understand, associated with acupuncture points. My. The personal side of this is doing some work with Chinese practices and chi. Like I still like do the little massages at.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Points. I don't know how this is related to my heart or this to my kidney, but I don't know like some thousand years ago. A lot of wisdom there. So I'm curious, as you know, you've got the dry needling acupuncture as well as the chiropractic. I'm curious if you do any. Have integrated any of that just into kind of your day to day. Are there any kind of acupuncture points that you're doing something with or is that just more of a. Oh, I gotta, I feel a little headache and I know where to hit that to get rid of it.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Oh, that, that's a great question.
So interestingly, and I'm not versed in the EMDR, you know, approach, but out of 8K taking an applied kinesiology class years ago.
So just below the clavicle here, so those of you can't see, I'm touching just below the clavicle near my sternum on the left side with my right hand, two fingers and then I'm doing the opposite on the other side. But the trick is you can't have your fingers touched just like Ghostbusters, don't touch the streams because then it'll. Your brain is able to figure out what's happening there. But that's a really great reset when, you know, when I'm feeling tightness of my chest stress. But that's kind of a, kind of a similar thing. And if you're not sure where to press, just kind of dig around a little bit in that space just below the collarbone and start working towards the middle, towards your sternum. You're going to find like a little tender sweet spot. And so you work, you work that.
So, and then, yeah, full disclosure here. You know, I also do Acupuncture in. So there's auricular therapies. There's a lot of acupuncture points in the ear.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Doing acupuncture on yourself, I mean, have I done it? Yeah.
Ear is a little bit easier. There's a great stress points. Battlefield acupuncture points for, for pain. My back is hurting or if I have a headache.
Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question.
You know, as clinicians, I think sometimes we don't necessarily make the best patients.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Well, you know, been a patient of a chiropractors, you all give us homework. Like, I don't think I've ever left an appointment without you expecting me to do something at home. So, you know, I like that you have to sit with this a little bit, my friend.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I think that for me the big challenge is getting out there and getting the blood flow, doing cardio regularly and that's, you know, taking my own medicine and following my own directions, you know, and that's, that's huge. And that's from an anti aging point of view. I'm 55, you know. You know, I want to be the crazy grandpa. Rock climbing with the kids.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Grandpa, don't. What? Don't step on that rock. You know, and so that's kind of a motivator to, to look at a lot of these, you know, modalities that are just, you know, becoming available like, like tracking HRV and intermittent fasting. As a side note, circling back to hrv, and maybe I just haven't found this on some of the other content with the podcast, but with intermittent fasting and 24 hour, 36 or 72 hour water fasting, mineral fasting, the HRV, tracking that during that has been mind blowing.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Because I've, I've, I've, I've done some fasting and the first time, like my hrv, my, my baseline just my, I had a new baseline. It wasn't just like a spike. You know, you take a grain with salt, you have a spike or a dip. Okay.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: You know, you know, but, but seeing that consistently afterwards, like, holy cow. My, my, my physiology really, my neurophysiology really likes the fasting.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: And so I repeated too soon. So it was actually the week following I did another 72 hour fast. And that was really telling because I felt pretty good. But my HRV was just trending down and down and down like, okay. Even though I don't feel any different, my body right now, I'm stressing the system out, you know, and so that's been, it's been a really great tool.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: I'll use the HRV reader in practice with patients as really a tool for them and I think the best application in the clinic thus far is really empowering the patient to do their biofeedback, do their breath work because that's a lasting tool stress management wise that will learning their own body better in addition to what I'm also offering. Love that.
But yeah, so, so, so I'm curious.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: I love to kind of start to wrap up on this question is.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: You know you mentioned that as, as a younger man you were a smoker.
I'm assuming that didn't go too far into adulthood. But no, no. And I'm just curious because having turned 50 this year as well, I like it really forces forced me to look forward like okay, how many snowboarding seasons do I have left?
I love my 20 mile hike. So how do I keep doing that? So it's been a really shift and I'm just happy that I started these other habits 10, 15, 20 years ago that I'd like to go back. I like 30 years ago I like to go back and kick myself in the butt. But 20 years ago I'd like to go back and thank that person for getting me here now. Yeah, I'd love for you like if you were to go back and maybe the last kind of year you were a smoker kind of as a, as a fun piece to do, what would you tell your younger self that like, hey, you know, we are going to hit, you know, 55 eventually.
Here's some of the things I'd like you to start to think about. What would maybe some of the advice you would give your younger self and you know, maybe some of our younger listeners as well.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I would tell my younger self, stop eating sugar. Yes, for one, tastes great, but stop eating sugar, you're going to, you're going to feel better. Yeah.
And obviously stop, stop smoking. I quit when I was 23, I'm 55 now.
And I would tell my younger self, you know, stop, drop and breathe, you know, and you know, and then the fourth thing would be get exercising, get moving. I wasn't a terribly sedentary kid, but I did not understand the role of yeah, I'd go to the gym and I would live, but I did not really understand the role of really good cardiovascular training, interval training and those things because yeah, the time, you know, it's never too late. Right. But the time Making those course corrections younger can put you on a, you know, can put a person on a better trajectory when they are 50 or 55. And I'm not making this up. I feel better at 55 than I did at 30. I don't have, I don't. My back doesn't hurt. My neck and shoulders don't hurt. I mean, I'm working on people all day long. I have a pretty physical job and my energy is best it's ever been. And so this is really cool. Like going into my, you know, my future years, you know, throttle forward, you know.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Game on, man. Let's go.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Do you. Besides what you mentioned, because that's a powerful thing. I'm always, man, I just have recency bias that I, you know, do I really feel better than I did at 25? And I think the answer is yes. But part of me really wants that to be true as well. So I will say that there's a bias to that, but I, I kind of really believe it as well. Are there other things that, that maybe you haven't mentioned yet? I don't want to, I just don't want to lose the opportunity.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: That that allows you to say that. I, I legitimately feel better today than I did 25 years ago because I look around me at some of the friends that I grew up with and I know that the opposite is true. And sometimes to a, you know, and diabetes and other chronic diseases have crept in where.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: See a healthy 70 in their future. Like.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: I'm like, I hope I'm still, you know, doing black bumps. You know, on the 70 where they.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: They kind of question of whether or not they're going to be around at that age. So were there any other kind of hacks or anything we didn't talk about? Because I don't want to leave without get any more juicy tidbits from you.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: I mean, the, the fasting is a great hack, which I talked about. That's super powerful. You know, nutrition wise and supplementation wise. I mean, there's so much good stuff out there. I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't direct necessarily to bone up on, you know, bone up on your, your nutrition and you know, you know, evaluate that.
That's a huge piece to the puzzle too, right?
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: But, yeah. And sunshine. Sunshine, yes. Okay. Yeah. The other hack is red light. I have a red light table, full body red light therapy in the clinic. And that's really, really great too.
Nothing is a replacement for sunshine. That's the bottom line. That's where we're supposed to get it.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: However, growing up in your neck of the woods, that is not always out. So to have that table as a backup during the long Chicago land or you know, Midwest winners, I'm sure it gets quite a bit of use, you know, especially during those winter months.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. The secret is bundle up and get out there, get outside, get out in the woods, run or walk or what have you and make a friend of the cold, you know, get your sight. Whatever you have to self talk you need to do to get out there, do it.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: One reason I moved to Colorado, when we got sun in the winter time, winter's now my favorite season because we get to go out and have fun in it. So that was my, that was. Not everybody needs to move 1200 miles away to improve their wellness. But I, I know for me that has been a. It's like I'm happy in February. Why am I happy? It's like, oh, the sun's out. Like, this is nice. I like this. So, yeah, I have a lot of empathy for my Midwest family still who they're, they're not all that happy in February. So I'll tell them about your table.
Awesome. My friend. Well, Steve, this is. I knew you were the right person to get on around this topic. I just appreciate you, appreciate your work.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: And, and I'm, and I'm so grateful for you guys and what you're doing there. You're, you're doing, you know, and work and you're really impacting people's lives and I could, I could attest to that firsthand. I'm your biggest fan.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: That is a huge treasure to give and I will pass that on to the team as well. So we'll put information around Steve and his work in the show notes that you can
[email protected] Steve, thank you so much for your time.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Oh, my pleasure, man. So good to talk with you.
Okay, take care.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: We'll see everybody next week.
