[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Heart Rate Variability Podcast. Each week we talk about heart rate variability and how it can be used to improve your overall health and wellness. Please consider the information in this podcast for your informational use and not medical advice. Please see your medical provider to apply any of the strategies outlined in this episode. Heart Rate Variability Podcast is a production of Optimal LLC and Optimal HRV. Check us out at optimalhrv.com Please enjoy the show.
Welcome friends to the Heart Rate Variability Podcast. I am back with good friend of the show, good friend of mine, Dr. Scotty Butcher. Dr. Butcher, welcome back my friend. How are you doing?
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Thanks, Mr. Bennett. Matt. Yes, thanks very much. I'm doing well. How about you?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Hey, can't, can't complain. As we were talking about, we had spring hit us for a second here in Colorado, so just nice to take sweatshirts, the coats, almost thinking about getting the shorts out, but now it's cold and probably will snow this weekend. So that is Colorado this time of year.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: So yeah, we're on a bit of an upswing too. Right about now we're, we've got a bit of an early spring as well. We're above freezing, so that's pretty unusual for the February.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: You take what you can get. Take what you can get.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: That's right. You sure do.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: So. So before we dive in, I'm excited to spend this episod talking about how Scotty takes the research he does, the learning he's done, the expertise he has and growing expertise around mental health, anxiety, physical health, and integrates it into his own routines, his own habits, his own approach to wellness. I know that there's a wealth of information there that I'm so excited to dig into. I did want to start out by letting our listeners know that Scotty and I will be doing a training on March 13th from 1 to 3 Eastern time here in the U.S. you can find more information of this at optimalhrv.com training and we're going to focus on HRV and physical performance.
You know, while optimal hrv, a lot of these podcasts, we kind of go back and forth between the mental health side and the physical performance side. I think HRV has just really revolutionized in some ways how we look at training, how we can utilize hrv biofeedback into our thinking of our athletic performance as well as our mental health, you know. So Scotty, I just love you. Get a second one. I think you and I, two hours CEUs are available. Why wouldn't you show up? But just some of the things that you're planning to cover in your section as well.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Great introduction.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Why wouldn't you come? I mean, you know, we, there's all, there's all the talk these days about, you know, the mind body connection and so many, so many practices that are amazing practices, but maybe some misunderstood aspects of a lot of things. And the thing that I love about this work is that it takes the, it takes the science of the mind body connection and makes it tangible.
It's not some concept that's just out there. It's like it's data. It's looking at your own data and going, well, this is how I can tap into that bridge between the mind and the body and accessing it through the breath and through muscle contraction and all of the things that we do. And to me, it's just so fascinating. And then when you were saying there's the physical and the mental and both sides of things, I mean, yes, this is going to be on physical performance, but you can't take the mental out of it.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Right?
[00:03:59] Speaker B: You can't take the psychological out of the physiological. And I mean, that's why we do the work we do.
So to me, it's just super exciting. But what we're going to do is, I know, Matt, you're going to talk a bit about some of the technical practices and around daily tracking and things along those lines and some, you know, maybe how to do some of the basics there. We're both going to talk about biofuel feedback. I mean, that's, that's one of the key things that brings us together and that aligns all of this. And I think, you know, in, in the physical performance realm, there's a few different aspects that we can talk about. One is, you know, general stress and mental wellness, which has, as we said, you know, lots of relevance to physical performance. But then, you know, we can get a little bit more specific and start talking about, well, how do we actually regulate performance when people are either over or under prepared or over or under aroused, over or under recover, and how we can either titrate the nervous system up or down based on what we're, you know, based on what we're doing and what we need, and then specifically around biofeedback for recovery interventions. So, you know, even between sets or between sessions or between events. And, you know, I've got a few examples that, that I want to bring forward as some of the things that I know we're going to talk about later in this session. Just some of my physical practices, I'm going to be mentioning a lot around. So, so it's, it's going to be around what I do on a daily basis for myself and for the clients that, that I work with. And then at the very end we're going to go into this really cool new area around detrended fluctuation analysis and for anaerobic thresholds.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: If that doesn't give you goosebumps, I don't know what I know.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: It's going to be so cool. And, and I mean, you know, you don't need to know all the ins and outs of the, the, the stats and that. You just need to know the number. And you know, if you, if you know what the number is, which get off a lot of the analysis software pretty, pretty easily in the monitoring software pretty easy. You, you can do a non invasive way of figuring out, well, what, what is your zone two, you know, and zone two is all the rage. But, but it's based on, you know, you need to know your heart rate zone, but you got to do testing to do that. So this is a great way to kind of get around the technical aspects of testing. So, so I'm super excited to talk about all that stuff.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, that's a perfect lead into something we're trying out. New a few weeks ago, first episode of this, you know, kind of series that I hope maybe once a month or once every few weeks we do and it's talking to the experts on how you've integrated this all into your own life, your own habits. And I, I, I really believe there's so much insight here because, you know, a lot of times, especially on this podcast, I like to say we are, we have 2ft solidly in the peer review journal world. And that is great. And that's where I want to stay, that's where I want to work. That's where I want optimal HRV to exist.
And yet I really believe that talking to how you utilize this research and you bring it into your own practice where we don't always have to have a meta study to say this works for me.
You know, I know both you and I will verify everything with heart rate variability and look at its impact.
So I think there's a, this is just an exciting topic for me to explore and I can't wait because I'm assuming that maybe a few things you do will get me thinking about it as well. So I don't know. You know, as you mentioned, I know you work both on the mental health side of things and the physical health side of things. And I don't want to necessarily separate those for you, but I wonder if there's a. You have a good starting place for us to explore what Scotty's days and weeks look like and how HRV and HRV biofeedback helps inform you living the healthiest life possible.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about that.
As much as we are based in the peer reviewed journals and the science, it's just like anything when you're thinking about what does this actually mean for someone today.
There's a lot of art that comes into that too. Right. It's not, it's, it's we, we do base things on, on science. But you know, you have to, you have to look at, well, you know, what are some practices that, that people enjoy doing or that that people are finding are successful for them and you know, maybe little tweaks here and there. If they're, they're not buying into, you know, one cue for breathing, you know, then you have to kind of think of a different cue for breathing. And I think all of that experience that you doing this is what brings a lot of that out. So you know, I've had a bit of a, a bit of a journey and progression in terms of what I've done versus what I do now. And it, it, you know, it started back I, I got into this world from a mental health perspective, my own personal mental health perspective before I was even trained in anything related to psychological health and mental health. And I, it, I just found that the practices of mindfulness really, I know I've talked about this in the past, that mindfulness really led me down a, a pathway of trying to discover why it was so effective for me other than, you know, oh, it's just, you know, I'm thinking differently or whatever, you know, I, I knew there were changes in my body and I wanted to understand that. So I, so, so I started looking into that. I started measuring heart rate variability and I started, you know, I bought an aura ring as that was one of the very first things that I did other than getting a tracker before you guys. You know, I didn't have the, I didn't have the optimal at that time, but I had a polar and I would use that and, and I had a, like I said, an aura ring and I, I got very interested in, in my sleep patterns and so looking at my overnight heart rate variability was very, very eye opening for me to examine what the, the impact of different Practices that I had each day would, would have as well if I was more stressed or if I was going to be sick. You know, I found it very predictive of those things. When you see a drop more than just, you know, beyond the, the baseline random error that we get with these measurements and something that's more consistent, it sort of predicts a bit more of the, you know, that there's challenges coming up. Right. And so I can dictate my days and. But I really, I really enjoyed using it as a method of really kind of doing my daily tracking. And that's where I really started with, with this. Well, once I got into the, the biofeedback piece and started looking into biofeedback, that, that was a complete game changer for me. So I, while I, I actually don't wear my aura ring anymore because I got a bit transfixed on the numbers, which I find some people can do sometimes is being like, oh, damn it. My, my RMSSD went down by 2.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: And now I'm going to be terrible in everything I do today.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: That's right. You know, and I think to some extent that's, that's natural when you're, you know, when you're looking at numbers. That's the beauty of data is that, is that you can look at things that are concrete, but you have to be a bit careful. And, and this is something I tell my clients too, that if you start finding that you're worried about these little changes, then, then you're actually doing more harm psychologically and, and eventually physiologically to yourself by stressing over it. It's like, you know, stressing over when, when we're looking up and down, the little ball going up and down and, you know, am I transitioning my inspiration to my expiration right at the right moment? If you're stressing about stuff like that, you're missing out on the point. And that was a lot of the learning that that would go on. And so I don't wear a ring anymore because, because I do my daily HRV work anyway.
So, so I've transitioned from that and now what I do is I do biofeedback on a daily basis. Now I'll qualify that and say it' always biofeedback. Sometimes it's just the paced breathing and there's really not a lot of difference other than, you know, when you do biofeedback, you have the data in front of you and you're, you're actually watching or you're getting some sort of tactile or whatever feedback on what's happening and you're seeing your HRV go up or down and things like that, which. Which is absolutely fantastic. But what I've found is the. The learning that has come from that and the growth that has come from that. In terms of my ability to tap into my parasympathetic nervous system and my vagus nerve, it is a learning curve. And so I used biofeedback daily with the actual tracking early on in my practices. And I found that massively eye opening. I found it massively helpful. And what was really helpful was learning how to feel those things by seeing the data. But then the real power of all of this work is by using the data to determine what's happening and know specifically what's going on for you. But then to take the data away and to go, well, I can use that to learn what I really, truly feel inside that interoception that. That I know we've talked about a lot, and a lot of your guests have talked about the. That that's such an important aspect of learning, what it means to just, you know, have your stress dial up a little bit or down a little bit or. Or to recognize how you're reacting to something or another thing or how well you're recovering from a bout of exercise when we talk the physical performance side of things. And so what I do on a. On a weekly basis, let's say, is I have two or three true biofeedback sessions where I'm, you know, it's just more of a check for me, because I know. I know what I'm supposed to be feeling now, and I've used to confirm that time and time and time again that I know interoceptively that my practice is effective when I take the feedback away and I just do some paced breathing. And often it's not even with a pacer, because you develop that skill and that experience to just know you can drop into that pace at any time without any app, without any device. But you need those initially. You need the app, you need the device, you need that data to learn what's the right way for you. You know, right from the resonance frequency assessments and making sure that you're at the right level, but also then monitoring to make sure that you know the cues that you're thinking of and the focus that you have and the mindful piece of it just all fit together. So the data is looking the way that you want it to during biofeedback, and then it's taken away and Use it throughout your daily life. So that's what I do more than anything now.
Like I said, I still use two or three times a week. I'll use the app and actually do an actual practice with the monitor just as a confirmation. But I enjoy doing that too. But other times I'll do meditations formally and I'll drop into the paced breathing while I'm meditating without even a pacer. But then out in life, noticing that you're stressed or again, you're under recovering or you're really breathing heavy because of xyz, doesn't matter whether it was an exercise stress or, you know, an anxiety stress or anything like that, you can learn what that feels like and then to bring it back into a place where you can be more calm. So that in a presentation like our training that we're going to do, where I used to get all anxious about that kind of thing, I know that I'm going, oh, I recognize what that is. That's just me being excited, which is cool. But at the same time, I've learned to taper that down a little bit and bring in some ventral vagal, you know, along with the sympathetic, which, you know, if you're thinking polyvagal. So anyway, that's, that's sort of what I do on a daily basis when it comes to HRV specifically.
I mean, exercise, you can't get rid of exercise. Exercise is such an important part of what we do and what we should be doing. And you showed me your biceps the other day that you're, that you've actually gotten into a bit of strength training. And I really value strength training. So I'm going to have a bit of a strength training slant when we do the training as well. So I use this practice when I'm training and I don't know if you. Do you want me to talk about that?
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that'd be great. I love, I'd love to learn, I'd love to learn those secrets.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So, so I, I do strength training, as I mentioned, and I have competed, I haven't competed for a few years now, but I have competed in powerlifting and I, you know, one of the things that I noticed early on in my powerlifting career was that, you know, when you're, when you go into heavier, heavier sets with lower reps and you're starting to push towards a 1 rep maximum or, you know, one of your max lifts that recovery is, is longer. It's even between sessions, but also between sets and it's, you know, it just Makes sense that you're, you know, you have to ramp up your sympathetic nervous system. You have to get yourself in that, in an engaged state to be able to lift heavy, but you don't want to take that so fully out of control that you can't then come back and actually have recovery. And I think that's one of the big mistakes that I see on, let's say, competition day, for example, with powerlifters, is that they just ramped up the whole day. Right. You know, you can't, you can't be ramped up in sympathetic for eight hours a day and expect to perform very well by the end of that or even recover. Right. You know, power lifters are notorious for, you know, going all out for, for a competition and then having weeks and weeks and weeks to recover. And I mean, that's partly the nature of the sport for sure, but I think it's also partly because they're not focus on recovery as they much as, as much as they are on the lifts. And so what I'll do and what I, what I recommend people in this world do is, you know, get yourself revved up for your lift. Whatever your lift is, whatever set is, get yourself revved up. And there's lots of different ways through your breath or through your mindset or whatever. There's lots of ways to do that.
Even the smelling salts and that, I've tried those a few times, just not, not, not my thing. But, but anyway, get yourself wrapped up. But between sets or between events or between lifts, I think it's really important to learn how to come back down and to learn how to get into a recovery state so that when you're ready to go again, boom, you can, you can get up and ready to go. And you're not staying at the constant high sympathetic, that constant high arousal. What you can do is you can come back down and actually get yourself into a recovery state, a repair state to a certain extent, between events or between your sets or between whatever you're doing. And so what that means is within the course for me. I try within the course of depending on how heavy I've gone, 20 to 30 seconds, maybe longer, if it's closer to a one rep max, maybe up to a minute where I'll just sort of regulate at the breathing pace that feels comfortable. I'll just try and lower my, my tidal volume down on my, my depth a little bit down just to try and bring ventilation down a little bit. But then after that point in time, I'll see if I can get down almost into resonance frequency and Dr. Into that. And I find it's just such a beautiful recovery method when you, when you allow yourself to kind of naturally come down, but even force yourself into something a little bit lower to just be, you know, feeling really good and recovered, not only from a mindset perspective, but even an oxygen recovery perspective and getting enough oxygen back into the muscles by not over ventilating between sets. And I think that's a missing part that a lot of people don't think about. So, so yeah, so then that's what I do during exercise. I don't do a lot of aerobic exercise other than my, my daily walks. I, you know, so I, I haven't used a lot of that and I certainly wouldn't recommend doing resonance frequency during, during, you know, aerobic exercise. But, but thinking about some of the principles are, are pretty important so that you're not over ventilating as well.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: I would love to ask, you know, I, I have a thousand questions, but I also know we got the training coming up, so I'll leave a little bit unsaid there. But I would love, just as somebody who's in the powerlifting world, because I'm trying to rack my brain, having listened to tons of podcasts and powerlifting is, I don't really remember ever hearing a powerlifter talk about heart rate variability. And I wonder, is there any integration there? Is what you're talking about? Would that just blow the mind of the typical, you know, power lifter? Or is, is this, is this science of recovery integrated? You know, has it made any kind of headway into that world?
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Short answer is no. It's, I mean, I think, I think power lift, well, it's just like any, any, anybody at a level of sport that they, they're doing something that they enjoy but they want to take seriously.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: You know, the performance is, is very, very important and, and you know, everybody has their own sort of style and way of saying how they're going to rev up for, for a lift or you know, prepare and what they, what they can do. You know, I think at a basic level most of them would understand that they've got a rev for the, for the lift and, but I think it's that recovery piece that isn't as well thought out and isn't as common. And I think part of it is that, you know, going back to what we said near the beginning, that we're really focused on the peer reviewed research. There really isn't a lot in the peer review research to suggest that this method is over and above better than other methods for competition. I haven't seen anything related to, you know, tying, powerlifting and HRV or breathing during a event. Let's say there's some stuff on training, but not powerlifting specifically. It's strength training individuals. So I think that again, it's a very under thought of way of looking at things, but something that can be really, really beneficial. And, and this is, this is my own anecdotal data. I always find that my sessions are more effective, my recovery is more effective and I, I have done mock meets, not an actual meet using this, but I've done mock where, you know, just going through the motions of pretending the lifts and that and used it and that and it's been really effective. Oh, and, and one of my clients has tried this as well and also found it very effective to be able to, to, to learn. Yeah. Even the idea that, you know, you can't stay revved the whole time. I think intuitively we know that actually again, have the, have the science and the data to say okay, well let's actually come down before we go back up again. Is, is something that is, is fairly new. New.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: I love that. Well, I will spare our audience creating a business plan around integrating this into that world. But it, but it's fascinating because I think in other worlds, like is there a professional hockey player or basketball player, you know, golfer who isn't tracking HRV in some ways, whether that's just an Apple watch or whether that's, you know, a more in depth exploration. So it's interesting that it hasn't quite maybe hit that arena, you know, quite as much. So I did want to pick up on something you threw out there as well because here, here you got two, two guys on this podcast, both that don't do any aerobic, real strategic activities. And for me I know that that's partly research based, you know, partly because sometimes running a half marathon hurts. But I'm curious, have you always sort of been a Zone two person? Has that been an evolution?
Because you and I share that my physical activity during the day is walking and I've got a treadmill right here by my desk. So sometimes I'm walking during meetings and other things or working on projects. Projects. I'm, I'm grateful to live in a beautiful area. So zone. I'm all about the Zone two and I kind of, I'd love to hear did that just evolve into that, but kind of your progression into that, that sort of Zone two as Your go to for, for movement as well?
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely coming from the evidence. And, and you know, in my past life of when I was a physical therapist and, and an academic teaching exercise physiology and prescription, you know, that was an evolution of mine. I mean, when I was younger, I, I always loved strength training, but I, but I always knew that I had to go for my runs, you know, and, and you know, I played rugby as, you know, when I was younger. And so you, you can't play rugby without learning how to run and sprint, right?
[00:26:00] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: You know, and things like that. So, so I mean, that's, that's, that's relevant. But what, what did it evolved into is sort of thinking of a sp versus a health model. And in, in sport there's, I mean, you have to be specific to the sport. So I mean, if you're, if you're gonna try and excel at 10k, 10k running or 5k running or marathon running, you know, you better not be just talking about zone two, right? You know, like, like there's a lot of zone two, zone three work that happens this lower, you know, kind of around anaerobic threshold. There's a lot of stuff that happens there. But, but certainly that's not all of the training. So, so even the research in that area though, suggests that if you're just staying right around that zone two, zone three, maybe into the top of three, that's not quite as effective. It's called the threshold model. It's not quite as effective as doing what they call a polarized model, which is a lot like 80% of your intensity in zones one and two. And then you have like 20 to 15 to 20% at super high intensity and maybe a little bit at threshold, you know, and, and that, that can be more effective. And, and there's some, there's some models of that in the health world as well, in the chronic disease management world, where, where again, that, that was part of what I did in my, in my past life. That really informed my thinking now. And so, you know, based on what we know out there, you need your minimum amount of physical activity at Moderate intensity, right? 150 minutes a week, according to. Most organizations say that that's what you want want. Now how you do that can be comprised of really anything, right? So if you're thinking of that sort of polarized model and the model of health, well, we know that that physical activity, if you're going to go for volume, should be at a fairly low intensity and that's where the zone work kind of con, the zone 2 work kind of concept comes in is doing a lot of that down there and that's, that's where the kind of, the walking can come in. And some people that you know, are in better shape than I, it might be a slow journey jock, right? Or it might be what, what some people call rucking, which is putting on a weighted vest and, and doing that like that. That's all, you know, depending on your individual fitness levels and that, you know, would all keep you at a heart rate that would be well below your anaerobic threshold that you could sustain for a long period of time. But what's missing from that is that, that 20ish percent of higher intensity work. Now a lot of people will accomplish this doing like HIIT exercise, high intensity intervals or sprinting exercise. That can be hugely for, for guys like me who I don't really care if I sprint again. I mean great, if I could still do it, but it's not part of my main goals. I want to be able to get off the toilet in 30 years without needing assistance. I'm good. I'm going to be squatting, right. And I'm going to be doing my, my resistance exercise and keep myself cardiovascular healthy with the lower intensity. So, so it's evidence based, but it is, it has been a bit of a transition from me being more of a, you know, that aerobic based athletic type into something that's more of, yeah, I'm just trying to survive life.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I, I just think it's fascinating what we've, the science has helped us evolve into. And again, you make a great point that obviously if you're going to be a runner or your sport, like me playing basketball, kind of like rugby, you better be running because it's part of, it is part of the sport. And yet when we think about wellness, I think so many people think I've got to go run a 10k or you know, a half marathon to be healthy. And there's some evidence out there that running that sort of level of distance for a lot of folks is actually not healthy. You know, you may get more fit along the way if you're not doing anything to gain that level. But, but this, this whole sweet spot of brisk walking, which I, most people can do, or a brisk activity if walking, walking is, you know, something you can't do. Just that sort of level activity is for many of us ideal unless we have those greater athletic sort of goals or participation out there, which, which I think is really just an interesting evolution of where we've come on this whole journey we're in to try to live healthy lives.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great point too. And you know, you look at the aerobic boom of the 70s and the 80s from, you know, the Cooper Instit and all of that, I mean that's where all that research came. I, I asked, I put out a video. Man, this must have been about 10 years ago now. It was on, you know, sort of the optimal prescription for health. And, and it's, you know, well, what if Kenneth Cooper, the, the originator of the Cooper Institute, he was a runner. Right. And so he, he, he focused his research on running, he focused his research on aerobic activity. I asked the question in this video, I'll try and dig it up and link it in for, for the viewers because I.
What if he was a weightlifter?
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: What if Kenneth Cooper was a weightlifter? Would our entire world be completely different now? Just because what we know is that the benefits of resistance training are equal to that of aerobic training and in some cases greater, depending on what you're looking at in terms of benefits. But you look at cardiovascular health, you look at muscular health, you look at bone health, you look at mental health, I mean they stack up side by side. When you start looking at things like physical functioning, resistance training has a bit of a win there.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: You know, even in cognitive functioning and metabolic disease, like diabetes, those sort of things, resistance training has a bit of an edge on those ones. You know, getting off the toilet.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: I don't care if you walk every day, but you know, if you don't, if you don't practice a squatting motion and stay strong there, you know, when you're 80, you're not going to be getting off the toilet quite as easy. Right. So these are things that are important. And you know, we joke about getting off the toilet, but that is the biggest predictor of whether someone needs long term care.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Can they independently use the washroom without the chance of injury or hurting themselves or falling or whatever?
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Such a functional aspect to this as well. So I would love to hear kind of your day.
So how do you fit in? I'd love to hear also any, you've talked about movement, you talked about sleep, you know, maybe throwing in a little nutrition, how you approach that. But, but, but walk me through how you, how you've integrated this to. I'm sure you built habits over time that you may not even think about much anymore. But I'd love to kind of hear how you integrate this in your, in your typical day or week, what different days of the weeks look like for you.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Yeah, awesome. Let's, let's just, let's just say at the top end it's all about moderation. I'm not, I used to be very, I used to be very focused on, on certain things and used to, you know, really get into, you know, if I'm only going to work on this, I'm only going to work on this.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: And really I, I've, you know, I think I've sort of taken the edge off of that with a little bit of, I would say the, the gray matter from my, has drifted outwards to my hair and my beard. So I've lost a bit of it there. Gained it and gained it in the hair, but that's fine as of age. Maybe there's a bit of wisdom or maybe it's stupidity or, you know, maybe it's not caring.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Rugby, which seems like I'm not playing.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Players over the years, moderation would not be the word I use to describe any of them.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: So, so, yeah, well, you look at my, you, yeah. In the 20s, go hard in training, go hard in practice, go hard in the games, go hard in the bar afterwards. And all of those things are things that, you know, aren't the lifestyle that's going to sustain me. So, so, you know, I, I'm not, I go with the flow a lot of the time. I, I'm not one to, to say I have to do something in a certain way. I allow myself some flexibility and I think that's really important as, as we're having this typ that it's the same thing as, as you look at when you're looking at the data, right. It's that mindset of, you know, if you see that little drop, are you going to freak out? Well, no, because I mean some people would and I used to, you know, so, so you look at that and you go, yeah, that's probably within my normal range. And even if it does drop, it's still not going to be a freak out. It's like, oh, okay, well that's interesting. I wonder why that is. And you think about that and then you go, maybe that was because I, you know, I don't know, I had a really, you know, fat laden dinner last night and you know, you know, with lots of grease or something like that, bad fats, you know, or it might be bad sleep or it might be alcohol or it might be maybe I am getting sick or maybe I'm just coming off of something or whatever, you know. And so, so using it as a teaching tool rather than, you know, a freak out kind of thing. And so, so, you know, in terms of answering your question, you know, I typically get up 5 5, 5am to 6am somewhere in that range I, I strive for five and some days it works and some days I don' the grace that it's okay if I need to sleep in a little that, you know, that's, it's probably my body telling me that that's what's needed, so that's okay.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: And just like two old dudes with sleeping in means six.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: That's true, that's true.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: I think you should give yourself a little grace there, my friend. If sleep in is usually 6:00am so.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Yeah, well we, weekends, weekends could be a nine or a out of ten for sure.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Okay, that, that's, I'm just impressed by that because I, I, I haven't, I haven't been able to accomplish that in years. So.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I love the 5am 5am is such a beautiful time when I, when I've gotten enough sleep, you know, it's, it's such a great time. Nobody else is awake. You know, it's a time for contemplation, it's a time for reflection, it's a time for awakening. It's a time for, you know, doing things, things that, that soothe me and that soothe my spirit, you know, others may say soothe my soul, that kind of thing. I, I use that sort of the 5 to 6 or if I get up at 6, it might be 6 to 6:30 or so. I use that time to, to either read or journal or meditate. Usually there's some combination of a meditative style of practice and the breathing practices that happen in the morning. Again, I'm not, I don't schedule much that, you know, that I have to stick to it. But it's, the habit that I've developed is just simply getting up and just, you know, really setting the intention for the day based on what I'm doing physiologically. And this is, this is, you know, what, you know, I used to hear people talk about set your intention for the day. And it's all mental, it's all psychological. I mean that's can be, that can be good. And I know a lot of people like that sort of thing. But I really love the physiological appeal of it because then it drives what your mental state is. So it's using the body which is really what biofeedback is all about. It's using the body and the body's feelings, the interoception, the, the feedback that we're getting from the body to, to regulate our world and regulate the way that we interact with the world. And it doesn't just involve me and my own mental capacity or emotional capacity, but lots of really good stuff, especially through Polyvagal the. And some of the research that's come out of that to look at that interactive piece and that, you know, when I'm well regulated and I'm in a place where I have the world around me sort of in that place with me, I can better sit with my kids and I can better sit with my wife and I can better sit with my clients and really be with them to hear them and to listen and to respond in such a way that isn't a, you know, a threatening way. And you know, it just, it just really sets me up for having positive interactions throughout the day. And I'm not a toxic positivity person whatsoever. If you're having a shitty day, you know, have your shitty day. Yeah, you know, you don't have to try and fake being happy, but, you know, starting a day, you know, and if I wake up, like I said, if I wake up and it's like, man, what the f did I do that? I'm so crappy right now. It's okay, allow yourself to be crappy, but at the same time, you know, other things that I can control that I can do something about. And so again, this is, this is my mindful practice, this is my meditation, this is my biofeedback or my breathing practices. So usually my biofeedback is done in the morning. And so when I do my breathing practices, it'll be kind of in that first hour or so and of getting up. And sometimes I'll read if there's a book I'm really into, or sometimes I'll journal if I've got some things on my mind. And sometimes, you know what, I sit down and I'm like, okay, I'm primed for work. So actually I use that time for work if that's what feels natural. But what I do, no matter what it is, I'm always thinking, okay, what can I do in a well regulated state?
So in that first hour is about regulating. Now a lot of times I'll use that time for my morning walks. And so I do four to five times times a week where I'll go for, you know, it's usually 20 to 30 minutes in the summer where I'll get up and, and go and do a 20 to 30. So we're not talking ridiculous here. It's just a little bit of time in the winter I have to sort of lump that in with my resistance training just because I have to go to a gym to do it. You know, walking outside in the snow banks is, is not fun.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: So and, and then two to three times a week I'll, I'll hit the gym and maybe up to four depending on what, what phase of where I am in life. If I'm training, if I'm training for a powerlifting meet, for example, it'll be probably four days a week. If I'm just looking to maintain or to just do some general strengthening, you know, 2 to 3 is usually what I'll do. And again, it's not super prescriptive. Love going. Lately I've been going with my, with my son who's, who's going to be 19, coming up here in about a couple months. And so we go and we go to the gym together two to three times a week. And yeah, and that's, so that's my exercise piece of things. Moderation in food does fluctuate. Sometimes I focus, sometimes I don't. I'm on a very focused phase right now where I'm really trying to get veggies and high quality protein at every meal.
Limit the carbs, especially the sugars, but again moderation when it comes to that and then just try to avoid my, my, my snacks at night, which actually I've been pretty good and actually the 5am starts really help with that too because, because you go to bed early too.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
Awesome. I just, I'd love to wrap up our discussion is you know, as, as we sit here with the grays in our beards and in our hair, just any advice that if you were looking back, back at your 25 year old self or 32 year old self, you know, I'm curious, you know, if you look back at that rugby player who likes like it sounds like your experience is like most other rugby players, you know, that play hard and then things happen at the bar afterwards. I've heard some stories over the years, but just kind of what, what advice would you give to your, your younger self with that? What's some of the wisdom that you've developed over the years working in the fields, bringing this expertise on that that you, you just maybe slide him a note to think about?
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it depends on the mood.
I I always feel like, you know, I'm here, I'm alive, relatively healthy. You know, there's a reason I got where I was or I am. And yeah, there's been some mistakes along the way, but those mistakes have formed me. So there's part of me that kind of goes, you know, why? Just. Just give yourself some grace, that it's all going to be okay. And I think, I think that's part of it. And I'd say that's probably the most important message. But if you want specifics and things I actually think about, one would be, you know, when you're not training hard and when you don't have as much money because you're in school or whatever, maybe two boxes of KD a day is not the best choice.
Maybe avoid that.
Think about, think about maybe, you know, cutting yourself off after the second beer.
You don't have to go to 20.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Rugby, baby. Rugby.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: That's. That's right.
And. And then just, you know, I think. I think just keep. Keep consistent. Consistent try. Try and keep consistent with that grace and moderation and don't necessarily go so much into. This is the only thing that I'm focused on in doing. And I. I think that's where that moderation really makes a. Makes a big difference.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: Wonderful way to wrap us up. Well, I knew this discussion. Discussion would be fascinating and give me some things to think about as well. So, Scotty, I appreciate you. I'm so excited for our training again. That's on March 13th. You can find more information of
[email protected] trainings. You can also go to our coaching page. Scotty is one of the coaches we push out because we know anybody who's interested in this conversation that you can apply some of this to, to whether it's your own mental health, your physical health. Scotty is somebody we have 1000% confidence in, so I'm proud to have him featured as a coach on our website. So, my friend, thanks so much. We'll put contact information for Scotty in the show notes here as well. And Scotty is always my friend. I appreciate you being on this journey with me and learning and sharing along the way. Way. So thanks for sharing your journey with us as well.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: And thank you for the invite and the consistent support. It's really nice to have a brother in arms along this path that we're going on. So, yeah, always appreciate you as well.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: All right, as always, we'll see everybody next week.
