Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Heart Rate Variability Podcast. Each week we talk about heart rate variability and how it can be used to improve your overall health and wellness.
Please consider the information in this podcast for your informational use and not medical advice. Please see your medical provider to apply any of the strategies outlined in this episode. Heart Rate Variability Podcast is a production of Optimal LLC and Optimal HRV. Check us out at optimalhrv.com Please enjoy the show.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Welcome, friends, to Heart Rate Variability Podcast. I am Matt, and it is my birthday. And if you ask me what do I want for my birthday, I wanted my good friend Jeff Summers to interview me about being old. So this sounded good in theory. Jeff, now that I'm, like, staring it right in the face, I'm like, what was I thinking? Like, dude, am I really ready to talk about turning 50? But hey, it sounded like a good podcast at the time, so I'm gonna turn this over to you and I guess talk about being old and turning 50 and what this means going forward. So.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: Well, first of all, most importantly, happy birthday.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Thank you, my friend.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Super excited to be here on the big day, my friend.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Five, zero.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Happened so fast. I'll tell you what, we've known each.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Other for 28 years now. 28 years.
[00:01:33] Speaker C: I was 22 when we met, which is absolutely insane to think that that was 28 years ago. It feels like maybe eight.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: And the paid version of the podcast, which doesn't exist, will tell you all the stories of Jeff and Matt, 20s. But that is not for the free version of the show. That' that's right.
[00:01:54] Speaker C: And then you started making better decisions than me, and you're at 50. I think you're maybe like a third of the way there based on how, how you, how well you take care of yourself, which is pretty impressive.
But, you know, again, happy birthday. You know, you say you're getting old. I think that's crazy. You know, the way you, you have maintained your energy levels and health is, is pretty spectacular. And, you know, I think you probably feel better now than you did when, maybe when we met 20 years ago.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: In some ways, weird, weirdly, I think you're right. I'm very conscious of, you know, I haven't been 20 for a long time.
20. I haven't been 20 for 20 years, like, since I turned 30.
But, but yeah, I, I try to think about how I could feel better right now. And one of my points is, like, well, you know, I did play basketball throughout college as a high school athlete. What? Boy, was I always kind of. I was taking Ibuprofen, like that. I was on the last bottle the earth had and, you know, doing. Doing some things, you know, now that I know about inflammation, that. But yeah, it does feel pretty good to end up at 50, at least feeling good, if not, you know, better than I was 30 years ago, which may talk about how I was living 30 years ago, but, yeah, it's not, Not a bad place to end up.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, that's it. And I'm, I'm, I'm curious before we, we talk about where you're at right now.
You know, this has been a journey you've been on for a very long time. And even when we met, yeah, you know, your lifestyle choices were certainly a little different than they are now, but you were pretty young comparatively to most people when you started making some serious lifestyle changes with the goal of extending your longevity.
So I would love to know, at what point in your life did you start thinking about what I do now in terms of how I treat my body and, and what lifestyle choices I make are going to get paid back at the end? And why? Because most people don't start thinking about that until they're older. They're feeling it. Maybe they're a little sick. Maybe they're, you know, at a point where they have to be more reactive. But you're very proactive compared to really anyone I've known. So I'm curious to know why you.
Why.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think, I mean, the answer to the question might surprise you is probably five years ago would be the answer now. I also got lucky along the way because, you know, as you said, I've been living a progressively healthier life since we met. I think I was still. I was probably when we met, I was just getting out of my ramen and Chef Boyardee spaghetti and meatball stage and probably just going the route of being a vegetarian around the time we. We became good friends. And so, and I say I was fortunate is because I was really paying attention, maybe not to what 50 would look like, because honestly, at 20, I don't. I don't think I could have thought that far. The math was scary. Like, wow, 20, 25. Like, is. Are we ever really going to get there? No way. Like, I was.
[00:05:34] Speaker C: You're thinking 30 was old, let alone 50.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: Exactly. And so, like, I was like, but, you know, as I started to look at, okay, I do want to be healthier. I want to. I want to live in a healthy way for the planet, for myself, you know, and kind of take responsibility for living More aligned with my values that naturally led to life choices that were different realms of difficult at the time. But I was, you know, I made that to eat healthier, you know, and then, you know, eventually go totally plant based. But it was more of how do I live healthy? When I went plant based, I was probably about 35, 36. It was like, how do I be healthier now? So it was this constant thing about looking at, okay, I do value my health and wellness, you know, how do my current behaviors contribute or take away from. From that goal? And that, that's been this progressive journey that I've been on.
And what, why I'm. Why I'm happy to say there was never one thing. I always say if somebody tells you it was one thing they did, you should probably run as fast as you can the opposite direction. It was just a continuous looking to say, okay, is this behavior contributing to my health or taking away from my health? And then about five years ago, because somehow I like started to age rapidly during COVID I swear I went into covet at like 32 years old and came out of it at 48. But, you know, that that's where I really started to think about the next 50 years and how, how does my behavioral choices not only lead to me waking up and feeling good and being able to give the best of my life, but also to enjoy a health span. Not, not necessarily that I need to live to 100, but how many snowboarding seasons do I have Left? How many 20 mile hikes do I have left? How do I do the things I love?
25, 30, 35. And if you look at medical innovation, maybe even longer, you know, I wait for the nanobots, you know, to come and, you know, cure us all. But, you know, so. So that's really been my focus now, is delaying a little bit of gratification of maybe my night out isn't as much filled with tequila as it used to be.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Not even close.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: It's not even close. But at the same time understanding that I might want to do something the next day. And the older I got, the less Jeff margaritas it took for me to have to lay in bed the next day and just mourn my decisions.
Yes, they are good margaritas, my friend.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: No, that makes sense.
So you talk about health. Spanish, I think, is a really interesting idea and it's certainly something people are talking about right now.
You know, maybe, maybe talk a little bit more about that concept because I think a lot of people think about lifespan and how can I ensure I get Older. And I mean that's, that's important.
But you know, really, I think a lot of people now are realizing it's, it's quality and quantity at the same time. So how, how do you increase the quality for as much quantity as you can get? Because, you know, not being able to do things that you enjoy doing for a long period of time at the end of life is also not ideal for a lot of people. Right, exactly. You know, maybe touch on that a little bit because I think that's an important distinction.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, from, for me, in my real reflection on this, as I was staring 50 in the face and I'm now here, was really, you know, the realization, you know, and you know, I love snowboarding. Like it's, you know, if you can imagine 6, 7 going down the mountain, probably too quick at times on a glorified piece of cardboard. Yeah, it looks a little weird, but I just love being out in the mountains enjoying winter, which I grew up in the Midwest of the United States where we were miserable all winter. We actually have something called seasonal depression disorder to describe our winners. And so like loving this, but also realizing I've had about 25 seasons of snowboarding, I may not have that many in front of me. And so for me it's thinking, okay, what do I do with how I eat and if I change it, I differ from people and I don't judge anybody on their choices. But like, if I eat in this way now, maybe reduce my eating window and lengthen my fasting window a little bit, you know, cut out on some anti inflammatory foods. I know, you know, we've talked about this podcast and the Way Back machine, like giving up alcohol, for example, something that I really truly enjoy, you know, and as you know, I have a rule. If you go up enough shelves and you want to buy something for me, I'm not going to be rude. You know, I'm done with the well and maybe the first two shells. But if you want to really strain your neck to see what's on that top, top shelf, I'm not going to turn down a dram of something up there. But you know, it's, it's that idea of, you know, if I eat this certain way on most days, if I, if I, if I go for a walk, if I do resistance training, knowing that that, does that extend my quality of life where I'm still enjoying the things I love to do. Snowboarding, hiking, being in nature, these things that just bring me joy, you know, into the future. I also think about my cognitive health as well. Because for me, yeah, I can, I can understand the concept of retirement. But Jeff, people pay me to travel the country and talk about my passion. Like, maybe that gets old or maybe nobody wants me to do that at some point. But as long as somebody sticks me on a plane and thinks I'm valuable enough to fly somewhere to talk about what I love to talk about, like I want to be sharp in that is, maybe I start to gain wisdom and, you know, be a different person in that space, but still bring my passion to the world. So it's like, you know, really looking at it. Does my choices today, this week, lead me to another five, 10, 15 years? Because I mean, looking back, I think the choices of. And I was, You've also seen I was not always the healthiest vegetarian either. So, you know, as I gradually shifted into more and more paying attention to that, I, I believe I probably gained. And this is all hypothetical because I could go outside and get hit by a bus.
Maybe five to 10 years of healthy life, you know, going into my 70s and maybe even 80s, you know, so, so I probably got that build up. You know, I've been hyper focused on this a little bit more. You know, just how do I fine tune the things I'm doing? Can I, can I lock in that, that 10 years of extra quality of life where I'm seeing some people in my age that I went to high school with hit a whole different stage of life where they're, they just hurt to walk and you know, I know I've given up some things to be where I'm at right now, but at this point, I'm seeing the more the benefits of that at 50, being able to go, you know, do what I love to do and doing it at a pretty high level for me at least. And you know, okay, it's been worth it so far. How do I, you know, so when your son Wes is ready to hoop, you know, I want to you because you're too nice. Somebody's got to block his shot, right? So, you know, I want to be blocking his shot while he's like 16 and I gotta have some knees and like, you know, because, you know, you're too nice, you know, yeah, Indiana gotta kick you in Wes's butt for a couple years until he learns how to shoot over six, seven. So, you know, I wanna, I want to be doing that level of activity, you know, if I could do it in my 80s, that, that to me is, is worth some of the choices. I've been Making in the recent years again with a little bit of delaying gratification to that, that larger goal.
[00:14:28] Speaker C: That makes sense. We've got a family friend who I envision you will be like where he strives to ski as many days as old he is every season and he is at 88 and last season he skied 87 days. So that, that's awesome.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what is potentially out there. And I think for our younger listeners, you know, don't, don't like freak out that you have to be perfect on this, but just think about, you know, what, what certain behaviors. Like for example, I gave up jogging probably seven or eight years ago for extended hiking and walking and my, I think my knees are thanking me and I'm probably healthier now because I do that every day, you know, or at least every day that the weather permits and I have the time to do it. And so like just kind of thinking about some of those activities that you know, really are going to support. To be 88 and out there, there's I, I always like to get to the ski lift early and there, there's this group of about 10 to 12 older gentlemen. There's a lady in there occasionally, but they're there every day. They beat me to the lift and they're, they're retired 70s, maybe 80s, just hanging out, talking, drinking coffee and they're out there just every day I'm out there. And I got like 50 days in pretty much last year. They're, they're out there. And so you know that those are some of my role models of, they're still doing this, you know, at that, that age and having a blast doing it. And if I can, if I could be in that group at some point, I'll be, I'll be a very happy person.
[00:16:19] Speaker C: That's it. You said it. So, you know, you mentioned 15 years ago you became fully plant based. Five, six years ago you gave up alcohol and started really kind of going on your HRV journey and practicing biofeedback training and all those kinds of things. So, you know, you're 50 now. What, what are you focused on moving forward in terms of, you know, what are you going to prioritize, what are you going to change, what are you going to adopt? What are the, what are the next five, ten years look like as you continue on the journey here?
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Well, one is to keep my HRV steady, you know, now that I've been measuring it in one way or the other for about six or seven years, you know, I've Hit that point where. But, well, a fun thing is happening right now is that my population norm is dropping, so I'm looking better right now. But it gives me that great metrics. I think what really has kicked it into gear for me, Jeff, is waking up every morning and having to confront the consequences of my behavior. I think, like, that's where the. The alcohol became more of. Just like, even if I had, like two or three IPAs, and, you know, we live in Colorado, so yeah, why haven't I paid when you can have a double IPA or for God forbid, if they have a triple ipa, which I don't even know why those are legal, but, oh, they taste so good. Like, you know, you have three of those, and I wake up, like, at 70%, which is okay, but at the same time, I just would rather sit on the couch and do nothing. So, you know, and to see my HRV tank, like, I don't know if I became allergic to alcohol, but I had a. It got to that point where, like, okay, it's 20 points slower than it is in a day where, you know, I go out, I still have maybe 85% of the fun because it is more fun with a Jeff margarita or two. But, you know, the decrease the next day. Like, I live in Colorado. Like, I'm either in golden, which is. Has amazing hiking, or I'm up in Keystone. Hiking, snowboarding. Like, I got things to do the next day, which really bring joy into my life. So can I give up one behavior and really not see the hit to my nervous system and get most of the enjoyment that I got before I stopped drinking?
And I have a great day the next day, do whatever I want to do the next day. And that's.
That's been the real. The real change, like, just dropping more and more. Like, I'm not allergic. I'm not sensitive to gluten. I think gluten can be consumed and I will have bread from time to time, but maybe I don't, like, go pick up a loaf from Panera on the way home from Pickleball on a Saturday, because maybe one dude doesn't need to eat a whole loaf of bread even if I burned the calories, you know, so just like cutting out some of that and eating a salad instead for. Of a sandwich for lunch. I was eating a healthy sandwich. But even that little shift, I'm not missing anything. You know, I'm just getting. I'm just taking some things that were probably a little minus taking them out and just replacing those with something of that also just seeing food as nutrients until it becomes enjoyable. Like that's where I think where I don't have to make a delicious robust meal every day of the week. Like I can eat for health five days out of the week. And you know, I went to Vegas, I'll just out myself. I went to Vegas last week and most people like go out and go to clubs. I go to bed at like 9:00 because I'm training the next day. But I found a place with like vegan loaded cheese fries.
Nothing healthy about them, like you know, maybe a little healthier than the meat version and the cheese, real cheese version. But oh man. And I, I went back to that place maybe three times. I didn't have the fries every time but I. Nothing was healthier. So like I still enjoy food but it's more of a, like it's my birthday so yeah, I'm enjoying food today but the previous days leading up to my birthday I've been eating you know, anti inflammatory whole organic foods at a reasonable portion. Yeah. And then I, I still enjoy it and I find that, that the, the enjoy and I hate the term cheat days. So I've, I've tried to get away from it but, but those enjoyment days actually are better because I'm not trying to get dopamine release from food each and every day. So you know, there's some interesting things to discover along the line and then again seeing my heart rate variability come in with it. And I know you mentioned HRV biofeedback as well, man, that, that has been something that just like I think has given me so much resiliency through a huge difficult time with you know, if you make most of your money through in person training and you try to launch our tech company on March 9, you know, 2020, you know, has just been a. I never thought I'd be on unemployment insurance ever again. That happened. Right. So you know, there's just that it gives me that ability I think to put things in perspective in a way that yeah, you can still piss me off. If you're a toaster oven and you're not working the toaster oven. Like it's not really going to impact my life that much if this thing doesn't work. I do have a microwave I can use and an actual oven which hypothetically works. I haven't turned my new one on yet, but hypothetically I love it.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: That's awesome. So now that you've gotten to 50, what are you thinking about sort of health and longevity and those Kinds of things. What's been the biggest surprise to you in terms of where you're at and how you feel and what you expected maybe 20 years ago, where you'd be at 50 versus where you actually are.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: I think my knees would be the answer because I grew six inches over a summer, one summer. And when I talk about living off ibuprofen, and I wish I could go back to myself and say, stop it. You don't need 12 ibuprofen to get through the day. But in some ways, I needed that to get through practice, to even walk around. Like, it was really painful. And I, you know, I. I've run close to marathon levels. I think 21 miles. I was at 11, 000 altitude when I did it, so it almost equates. I still bugs me. I've not gotten there. But, you know, some things you don't. You can just, you know, but, you know, I. I was running on regular 15 to 20 miles. It, you know, at a time, maybe once a week or once every other week, you know, and. And I was starting to feel that, you know, impact in my 30s. And so, you know, really paying attention to, you know, how do I keep, you know, something that I cared so much about because I'm old enough that if you blew out your knee playing basketball, your career was over. Now you, like, sit out for three weeks and you're back. Which wasn't the case all through my high school, college career. It was a ending thing. So really, that. That my knees, yeah, they pop more than they used to, but, like, they. They work. And I think I paid a lot of attention, especially with my resistance training.
I think it's called isometric training that. But, you know, it's like, if I do a curl, like, yeah, most people think about bringing that curl basically from down to your shoulder, doing the curl. But also that focus on letting it go is supposed to be really good for the joint. So really incorporating that has kept shoulders, elbows, knees in a position where I can do what I love to do, you know, so that. That has been a real joy that I have the mobility at 50.
Like, I think I could go and run pickup with high schoolers. Like, I've always been slow, so it's like, if everybody's out running me, that's the, you know, I'm on this trail and shoot the three like you. Nobody's drag, you know, picking me because I. I'm gonna lead the fast break. But, you know, it's that I could still be that active if. If I Wanted to, you know, I've also like sprained ankles and hurt myself playing basketball so I'll do it occasionally but it's not, you know, again it's one of those things I've kind of worked out in my routine but I find things that, that I like even more. So I, I would say with the, the, the lifting and how I lift and now that I've really paid attention to that zone two research out there with brisk walking being pretty much the, I think the best exercise out there for physical, mental, cognitive health. Like I just find so much joy being out in nature walking the dog, you know. And that to me just, I love it, you know. And so, you know, kind of finding these activities that really allow me to support not only getting here in good shape and good shape as far as mobility. I'm not one of those people who are in awesome shape but need a knee replacement. You know, I, I, I got here okay. So then I hope to have the same knees for the next 25, 30 years if they'll, they'll have me. So I, I figure if I need a new one in 20 years, the technology will be so good that why not, you know.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. That's right. Totally bionic D. Yeah.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: So I can get a vertical leap finally with my bio.
Yeah.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: Then things get really scary.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: 80 year old.
[00:26:40] Speaker C: So you touched on this a little bit earlier but you know, for the folks that are, you know, maybe still in their 20s, early 30s, that might be listening, you know what, what kind of advice would you give them just based on the knowledge that you've gained over, you know, the last 20 years as this has become more and more focused for you?
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I would, you know, if I could give two pieces of advice here. One is think about your values.
This is one and I kind of joke I was really resistance to resistant to doing this. I thought it was kind of, yeah, it's woo woo like I don't know, I got better things to do. And then some of the authors I really respect said it so I wrote them down and you know, that that's where you know, whether it's non violence or my, my, you know, trying to be environmentally responsible or health and wellness as somebody who's been in the mental health and now physical health space, like those values and every time I do my morning resist, frequency, breathing, mindfulness, I remind myself of those values. And that activity that I did in my twenties started to change my behavioral gradually over time. And that was such a huge game changer and has been since for me. And then I would encourage those who are in their 20s or 30s, you'll probably get here too. Like, I always thought, like, you know, you had that athlete mentality that, you know, sacrifice everything for the next game or to get to practice or to get to the gym today and not, don't worry about, you know, you know, tomorrow, much less a year from now, much less 10 years from now. And if you're at that point where you're maybe not getting paid to play athletics and it's not your job, just think about, like, what is going to support the life you want to live into your 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. And I think that focus and then bringing the research on there that, you know, I'm probably healthier than I've ever been by doing zone two activities and a little resistance training. And then I can go for a 22 mile hike if I want to. I can go do the bumps and trees snowboarding, you know, because I've kind of saved it up to do that. So I'm in enough shape to do some of the more strenuous stuff I love to do, but at the same time, you know, setting myself up where I still have functional knees, you know, 25 years from now, I may not be doing the bumps, but I hope to be doing the blues. Like, you know, and trigger too. Like, as long as you don't run into the trees, it's kind of fun in there. So which the size of your board.
[00:29:33] Speaker C: Is hard to not run into.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: You got. You gotta have that quick turn radius. Yeah. So. Or go at a gentle pace, which I have found very useful with that. And wear padded shorts so when you hip check a tree doesn't hurt quite as bad.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: There you go. That's smart. That's it. I love it.
Well, Matt, pleasure getting to spend a little bit of time with you on your birthday. Obviously a pleasure looking forward to celebrating in person in the near future. But, you know, thanks for the wisdom and sharing, you know, all the things that have mattered and helped you along the journey. I'm sure a lot of people are really going to appreciate that and I know I learn a lot every time I talk to you as well. So again, happy birthday.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Well, my friend, I appreciate you taking more than half of my life's journey with me. That, that is, that is a crazy thing to say that I'm 50 and we've been friends for that long, but it's just been one of the joys of my life to be a part of your life. Your professional journey, finding that connection between the two of us with optimal hrv and then watching you become an amazing father and husband.
I was a little older than you when we, we first became friends. Like I was the old 26 year old guy in group. You were all like fresh out of college, but you tolerated me.
You know, I hope I got some rebounds for our basketball teams back in the day.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: Hit a bunch of threes.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: But yeah, that, that just has been such a joy to watch. And I, for those that are like, you know, kind of freak out about getting old, there's something amazing about looking back that there is something really cool about getting to a place where I can reflect back on our almost 30 years of friendship together. You know, like that, that is really cool, you know, being. I go celebrate my, you know, 25th year of being in Denver, Colorado this year and what like moving out here and what that's meant to me in my life and all that. So it's not all bad. I think if you take care of your mind, your body, you know, and spend, you know, 20 minutes a day practicing mindfulness biofeedback, think about like five out of seven days. How can you eat to support the, the life you want to live? And then, you know, maybe you don't give up alcohol, but maybe, you know, you got your friend Jeff who's got a few good tequila bottles you enjoy. Every once in a while, maybe you buy some for his birthday and hopes that he'll share them with you. But you know, you just, you, you can, you could get like live happy because that's so key. Live social. But again, those little tweaks of maybe how you eat on a Tuesday, you, you just kind of get hardcore on a Tuesday. Wednesday and Thursday. Have fun. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, like just those little things, I think I'm living proof that those can make a difference moving forward. So yeah, I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you for this birthday gift and as always, you can find show notes, everything else at optimal hrv.
And as always, we'll see you next week. Thanks, Jeff.
[00:32:55] Speaker C: Thanks everybody. Thanks, Matt. Happy birthday.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: Thank you.
